Friday, December 08, 2006

openSUSE 10.2

There's been a lot of talk lately about Novel and Micorsoft's new deal. Most of it has been bad, and I can only really think with good reason too if the Samba team - amongst many others - have seemingly been against this deal. Yet, I've done some research, as far as I can tell they haven't breached the GPL or in anyway admitted that Microsoft has legitimate intellectual property claims over any part of GNU/Linux so I myself don't see the problem (still who am I to make this judgement, see edits 1 & 2); add to this the fact that I believe a lot of what Novel has done, like usability testing, beagle etc has added a lot good things to the Free Software world and the result of all this has been that once I saw openSUSE 10.2 available for download I went and got a hold of the iso and installed it on my system!

[Edit: For now I will read Groklaw and see what they have to say on the matter and say this: openSUSE 10.2 really is a very good distribution; as for the deal regarding Microsoft and Novell, I'm no legal expert so I would point people to Groklaw to hear one side of the argument and to the openSUSE wiki where you can find Novell's response, and ask that you make up your own mind. Edit of the edit: You may also want to do a google search for information from Eben Moglen and Richard Stallman to get their points of view on the deal; someone in the comments has suggested their responses are also very useful.]

[Edit 2: After reading Groklaw, although I am still unsure, I don't want to make the mistake of endorsing a Novell product (or any product related to Novell) because of my ignorance! The review stands, it is a good distro, but in terms of what Novell have agreed with Microsoft including the agreement to include OpenXML support in Novell OpenOffice, I can't recommend it. In fact, I will be changing. I'm not sure what to but I think I'm going to have to think long and hard about it. ]

I must say I'm impressed. So much so I'm going to attempt to write my first ever distribution review! I'm not going to go over every step of installation and use, rather just try and pick some of, what are in my opinion, highlights (and real negatives!) of the distribution.

Pros:

The installer was as good as any other graphical installer I've ever used. What was really great about it was the package selection: here the user had complete control over the installation packages with detailed descriptions of each to help you make your choices. The other thing I liked about the installer was the good default partitioning layout, using ext3 and a separate home partition. Add to these two things it worked, detected and configured my hardware properly, had a nice slideshow while installing telling me about all the great features I was going to find in the OS, and had me online quickly and easily.

The default themes throughout, including the boot splash, the GDM and Gnome's desktop backgrounds are all really attractive with nice blues and curvy lines and a, in my opinion, very cool openSUSE logo. Once logged in it took me a while to get used to Gnome with just a single panel across the bottom, with a single menu "Computer". This menu is so different to any other Gnome menu and I really love it!

Rather than try to explain it all, which will undoubtedly end in failure I'm going to link to some screenshots:
If you click the image you should hopefully be taken to where you can find a complete screenshot walk through of installation and the main features of the distro. Saves me a lot of time :-)

You might be wondering how to see the rest of your applications? Well, you just click the "More Applications" button and you're taken to a window with all your applications nicely catagorized and looking quite attractive, and a filter search to help you find them quickly.


The best thing about this, in my opinion, is that it's clean and there's nicely integrated beagle search which is just such a fantastic idea! Also in this menu is a link to openSUSE's help documentation which covers a wide range of topics, although I fear it won't be much good for any problems requiring more in depth knowledge - IRC, mailing lists and forums will still be important!

The other thing that's really different about this distro is that they actually make use of Gnome control center. This is a really good point I think as it looks much cleaner than the system menu used in other Gnome distros and makes it feel more complete.

Although none of these things are crucial functionality they make the whole experience a lot more pleasant. Things that are different to other distros are the default installer, which has a simple interface and makes installing applications easy to do, with repositories setup by default during installation; linked to this as well is the Yast2 set of graphical applications for configuring your system, hardware, software etc. I haven't had much chance to try it out yet, but it's accessible from the Gnome control center and appears to have a wide range of tools. I have used it for adding new repositories and that was straight forward, so I can't really fault it yet.

I should also add Firefox 2.0 is present here and is really great to use. The new spell checker feature is proving it's worth while I write this post :-p While talking about applications, F-spot and Banshee are both installed and clearly promoted in the default install which I think is fantastic because they look great and they work great too. I even think Banshee is using Helix as the backend by default, and if I'm correct this provides out of the box support for WMA and mp3 from an open source application. Please feel free to correct me on this. Although it's a shame not to try and support ogg etc a bit stronger this will certainly appeal to people coming from Windows.

Cons:

There's only two thing so far I'm not impressed with: it seems slugish at times, certainly when compared to Debian or Fedore (with out SELinux enabled), and I wonder if this is because of Novell's apparmour? I haven't tried disabling it yet because it's only a matter of 10s or so on boot and login but it does seem strange when the rest of the distro is so good.

The other thing is the range of software available in the default repositories. It seems quite limited, but then it could just be that they've chosen different packages to what I've seen in other distros. Everything one needs for most tasks is included but there are some obvious gaps such as Istanbul desktop recorder (maybe not so obvious until you come to record a screencast for a review you're writing!).

I do wish they'd used a better default icon set too: I think they're using "Industrial" and it's just ugly in my opinion! Only a minor point.

The final point I'd like to make is about their approach to non-free software. If you're downloading the CD images you have to grab an extra bonus CD to get non-free bits and bobs, which I think is a fair approach and similar to Debian's non-free and contrib repos; when downloading the DVD, however, they're on the ISO and some are even installed by default. During installation if you choose to customize your software selection you see they are clearly labeled proprietary which I suppose is fair, but if you didn't choose to do this? The first clue you have is when you're presented with some license agreements. I guess I just wish they made the point a bit clearer, throughout the distro (with things like out of the box mp3 support).

[Edit: After reading Groklaw, although I am still unsure, I don't want to make the mistake of endorsing a Novell product (or any product related to Novell) because of my ignorance! The review stands, it is a good distro, but in terms of what Novell have agreed with Microsoft including the agreement to include OpenXML support in Novell OpenOffice, I can't recommend it. In fact, I will be changing. I'm not sure what to but I think I'm going to have to think long and hard about it. ]

In conclusion? I'm going to stick with it. It really is impressive with a great set of software installed by default (taking away perhaps a lot of my need for massive repos), nice touches like the new menu and use of Gnome control center etc.

Sorry it's not the most detailed review ever, I'm impatient! If there's anything I've not talked about and maybe you'd like to know about before trying it yourself post a comment and I'll try and answer your question. Or you could just look at the openSUSE website :-p








203 comments:

1 – 200 of 203   Newer›   Newest»
Miguel said...

Limited repos?, No way; I have found everything I have ever wanted. Surely you'll change you're mind. Anyway, you're right, impressive!. The best of suse is opnsuse.org; there you've every solution you may need.I'm a KDE fan and even over it suse still shines (now with anew menu!!).

Nice review))

Marius said...

Indeed the brand new openSUSE (thank GOD they changed the name, finaly!) is a wonderful piece of software. But it looks there still are problems with software installation... (this is regarding to what Miguel said) ... for exemple: MPlayer-k7-sse2 needs openal ... where is it? I have installed 30 repositories...and it's not there... I have to go to rpm.pbone.net and find a recent copy of openal...

Great review!

bill p. said...

My impression is that it much faster then 10.1, in execution and loads

I agree the Suse repositories are limited but Packman and Guru resolve most of my wants

Tim said...

Seems to me that the biggest source of slowdown is Beagle.

Craig said...

Can anyone confirm 10.2 uses banshee with the Helix backend by default? I had to add the factory repo to get the green logo Helix Banshee, but I assumed the blue logo default Banshee didn't contain Helix.

Reginald said...

As for the limited time I have used suse 10.2 the only remark I have with this distro is the fact that it's not at all clear how to enable XGL compared to Ubuntu.
Also I would have liked a chmviewer in the packages. I had to find two rpms for kchmviewer before I could read my chm files.
Also it would have been nice if the Gnome menu offered the same option as the KDE menu (old style menu)

JonRob said...

Thanks for all the comments, most I've ever had on a blog post!

I hope I do find that the repos aren' so limited and I guess that will show with time. I'll have to try the packman and guru repos too...

Most definately used Helix as the backend on my system for Banshee; this may have been because I installed from the DVD and not the CDs, so had the "bonus disc". I'm not really too sure.

I found XGL much easier to enable than in Ubuntu. If you head over to the control center in Gnome there's an option "Desktop Effects" and open that and you simply click the button "enable desktop effects" or words to that affect.

Thanks again for the comments :-)

Sheer said...

Hi,

Thanks for one of the first reviews. Could you perhaps comment on the boot time of 10.2 versus 10.1? 10.1 took more than a minute to book on my laptop while the last ubuntu release takes less than 40 seconds on the same machine. I was hoping they would improve on this area in 10.2.

EnviroTO said...

I agree you definitely can't endorse openSuse because of the evil deal made between the evil Novell and the evil Microsoft. Probably you can really only really test and endorse Debian GNU/Linux since other distributions have evil "for profit" motivations behind them such as Canonical Ltd. and Red Hat Inc. Watch out or the evil-corporation will get you. How many times have you seen people screwed by "corporations". Can you believe the nerve of some companies leaving out the GNU in GNU/Linux. When I use RHEL I get idemnification but if I use Debian I don't... for shame!! The "for profits" are coming, the "for profits" are coming, run for your lives.

tonybarker said...

Although I am not pleased with Novell's dealings with Microsoft, please realize that OpenSuse is a separate open-source project. The programmers busting their butts on OpenSuse have absolutely no say over Novell's business practices.

So if you are chosing a Linux distro, you should choose the one that is best for you. If that happens to be OpenSuse, use OpenSuse.

I can understand you not wanting to buy Novell disks, but Novell makes no money from you downloading and using OpenSuse. Moving away from OpenSuse does nothing to penalize Novell, it just penalizes you.

Juan said...

I didn't like it ,I think yast is more complicated that it should be ,I think their kde is too bloated ,it took 430mb of ram ,compare with 230 on pclinuxos.
You can see the trend with popular distros ,livecds with installer,that's the way suse should go.
Maybe somebody can write a script for installing codecs and other important stuff that doesn't come with the distro like with ubuntu.

Juan said...

I forgot that I couldn't find fluxbox in the repository.

Yagotta said...

@tonybarker

what u write simply isn't true.

realize that OpenSuse is a separate open-source project

no, it is not. it relies heavily on novell's funding. most of the developers are paid by novell. got the picture?

The programmers busting their butts on OpenSuse have absolutely no say over Novell's business practices.

are you really that stupid? read my lips:
1. noone is 'busting his butt' @novell
1.1 (or her butt, for that matter)
2. the programmers are on the payroll of novell - almost all of them
3. we have a participation law in Germany, and this is why the German emploees of novell have a lot to say about what is acceptable and what not.

Novell makes no money from you downloading and using OpenSuse

you are dead wrong here. any one user does add to the company value. think about it: how much would novell's worth be if half the world used their software? or 95% of all desktop computers?

moving away from openSUSE does nothing to penalize Novell, it just penalizes you

absolutely moronic statement.

if you dump your ford/toyota/whatever, and go for a better car which does not force you to use certain roads/gas stations, do you "penalize yourself"?

you are plain silly, kid.

*PLONK*

YBK

dop said...

If MS IP is being breached by OpenOffice, then remove it and install the vanilla version.

IMHO, if you reject a distro because a package MIGHT infringe IP, then you as well say "ok, this distro probably uses IP of someone else". Which is not what we need right now.

JonRob said...

Just to clarify for people my point of view on Novell/Microsoft: I don't really understand the issues very well myself, and I don't know what kind of influence Novell has over openSUSE: because of thse two reasons (both of which are my own fault for failing to understand!) I'd rather rest on the side of caution. This is just me. The links are there in the post for people to do a bit of research for themselves and make their own decision...

Still thanks for all the comments and feedback! I'll sound lame for this but it's pretty cool when you actually get comments posted! Infact, everyone on here has commented more than people did on my podcast with Richard Stallman, Jeremy Allison and Jeff Waugh - which you can find at http://questionsplease.org. That was a shameless plug but check it out! It's a good listen :-)

Jon

p.s. As for the boot time vs 10.1: I don't know. This is the first SUSE distro I've tried! What I can say is it felt slower than Debian/Ubuntu and possibly even Fedora.

Jörg said...

While I am not particularly fond of the Microsoft-Novell deal, I have to say that I lost a lot of respect I had for groklaw for their postings about it. Take for example the 'Novell "Forking" OpenOffice.org' news (I do not remember the quotation marks being there the first time I read it). Hello? Novell had its own enhanced build of OOo for quite some time, and I even recommend using the Novell version on Windows instead of the one from OOo.

I do not think the groklaw postings gave me fundamental insights into the problems of the deal. I find reactions from RMS and Eben Moglen far more interesting.

Oh, and if you are looking for a bomb, I rather suspect it sitting in Mono, not in OOo's support for OpenXML.

ÜMineiro said...

I was using openSUSE 10.1 until a week before 10.2 was released. At first I was very happy with it and, since I am novice to Linux (although an experienced user) and the fact my employer does use Novell Servers (yes, there are some out there yet!) witch will become Linux through OES, it was the right choice for me. But as I grew more and more proficient with Linux, I decided i couldn't stand with the laziness of 10.1, the never ending package management problems and some not so obvious things, such as unexpected behaviours hard to solve (e.g. My TV card works for some time and then suddenly stops. I boot with ANY liveCD, reconfigure it and when it come back to SUSE it works... for some time. After y dumped in favor other distro, it is working full time). I believe this is a very usable and very well polished distro. I respect a lot the work they have done to the look an feel. But the inside is somewhat rotten to me. Well, this is my opinion. Not sure where exactly I'm going from SUSE. Currently I'm doing some research on other distros and eventually I may test 10.2, but for now, it has lost its new car smell...

tonybarker said...

> > realize that OpenSuse is a
> > separate open-source project

> no, it is not. it relies heavily
> on novell's funding. most of the
> developers are paid by novell.
> got the picture?

OpenSuse is supported by Novell, but the
programmers (mostly in Europe) have absolutely no control on what the Novell suits do in Utah.

Furthermore, the code produced by OpenSuse programmers is not Novell property. It is open source, allowing anyone to take/use/modify it. You could take it and start your own distro.


> > Novell makes no money from you
> > downloading and using OpenSuse

> you are dead wrong here. any one
> user does add to the company value.
> think about it: how much would
> novell's worth be if half the world
> used their software? or 95% of all
> desktop computers?

That is totally wrong. Novell's Linux worth is measured by the number of licenses of their Enterprise Linux they sell. OpenSuse users do not factor into Novell's worth as they generate absolutely no money for Novell.

> > moving away from openSUSE does
> > nothing to penalize Novell, it
> > just penalizes you

> absolutely moronic statement.
>
> if you dump your ford/toyota/
> whatever, and go for a better car
> which does not force you to use
> certain roads/gas stations, do you
> "penalize yourself"?

You call my comment "moronic" and then
give that lame analogy? It doesn't even come close to applying to this situation.

Novell gets ZERO revenue when someone downloads and uses OpenSuse. People should use the distro that is best for them. If that is OpenSuse, use OpenSuse.

Again, Novell gets ZERO revenue when someone downloads and uses OpenSuse.

Lower the emotion and use your brain.

Anonymous said...

Right on! Criticism of the constructive variety is what this community is all about. Trolling and flaming are getting a little trite at this point anyways.

I just wanted to thank you for your revue and put in my two cents.

I've been using 10.2 OpenSuse for about two months now after switching form Mac OSX and I have to say that while I still prefer Mac OS for ease of use, I think 10.2 is actually a really decent OS. My chief complaints have been compatability issues with hardware drivers and the newer 64bit architecture. Just about every other driver i have installed on my system has induced a fatal crash error of one kind or another. And specific support addressing these issues is elusive to nonexistent on the web.

I think Suse despite it's potential buissiness deals and intrest on the Novell side of things could be an excellent contender as an alternative to Vista. While I have not delved into FDC6 yet, I have found it thus far to be far easier to compile and use than Unbuntu's 64bit installation.

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